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nerdflighterSO I received an anon on tumblr, as I do, which said:
“socialization” theory as it stands is a hot mess. esp because of terfs, who use it to claim things like “trans women have male socialization”........which they definitely don’t lmao........socialization theory is good but radfems fucked it up
i think there needs to be space to talk about the ways in which both trans men and trans women report being affected by rape culture and that lens cannot be gender socialization...because when we talk about gender socialization as something that takes place in this sort of vacuum where everyone is socialized as the gender they really are...........that does not reflect reality and it does not reflect the mental state of the people the socialization is supposedly being acted on. like i don’t mean to say that people are socialized as their agabs - that’s not true either. there’s a middle ground between 'trans women experience the same socialization as cis women' and 'trans women experience the same socialization as cis men'. neither of those are true, because trans women aren’t cis and they aren’t men.
socialization theory can account for the ways in which people perceived as women (trans men) and people who are women (trans women) both live under the threat of rape, structure their lives around that threat, that isn't gender socialization
because the entire point of radfem gender socialization (man am i tired of typing these long words out) is that males don't experience rape culture...........which is predicated on the assumption that men can't be raped. if you can't be raped how can you experience rape culture?
so the core of their argument against trans women is:
1. all women live under the threat of rape
2. this is female socialization
3. males rape
4. males cannot BE raped
5. males experience rapist socialization (because only females can be raped and they are never the rapists.........so the people doing the raping have rapist socialization.
6. trans women are male
7. trans women do not live under the threat of rape (blatantly untrue and easily disproven by the stats btw)
8. trans women are male rapists
but the material reality is that trans women are raped more than anyone else in the queer community and trans men also live a lot of their lives wondering if they’re gonna be raped, as you just noted, even after they pass.
so how do you reconcile these experiences - clearly the result of socialization of SOME kind, without resorting to gender as the axis of violence?
my proposed answer is *drumroll* rape culture socialization
important note: when I say ‘rapeable’ I do not mean ‘deserves to be raped’. I do not mean ‘is always raped’. when I say ‘rapeable’ what I mean is, ‘able to experience rape [as a form of violence]’. rape is a form of violence like any other, and in some sense we’re all rapeable just as we’re all killable: we possess a physical body, that somebody can come along and hurt. it’s not a statement about whether our bodies deserve to be harmed or violated in such a way, and I beg you to not take it as such.
here’s how that goes. everyone experiences rape culture socialization. e v e r y o n e. but some groups in particular have messages directed at them that tell them they could well be victims of rape if they don’t fulfill certain prerequisites that will supposedly prevent them from being raped. the primary target of these messages from the POV of society are afab people. afab people, which for society is synonymous with ‘women’ are socially conditioned to think of themselves as people against whom rape can be committed (im sorry for the convoluted sentence phrasing). so trans men absorb this message that they’re people against whom this form of violatory violence can and will be used, especially in a “corrective” manner.
by contrast, cis men by and large don’t see themselves as rapeable. that is not to say that cis men don’t get raped - just that they don’t constantly worry about being raped because society doesn’t push male bodies as rapeable. however, society does treat trans women as “failed men” or as predators themselves, or as “traps”, all of which are ways of saying “acceptable target.” so trans women, in addition to absorbing messages directed at women (because they’re women, duh) about how women are rapeable, also absorb messages about trans women as uniquely rapeable.
so they’re socialized in a rape culture too.
so I believe what you’re experiencing, anon, is not female socialization but rape culture socialization, which is something that affects each and every one of us.
thoughts welcome, and please let me know if someone's already thought of this even though I swear I came by this honestly I really am behind on all the reading I should be doing......lmao. Anyway. I'm not posting that answer until I can be reasonably sure that I won't be misinterpreted TOO badly, and a part of that is clearing up my phrasing and sentences. My answer has been pasted verbatim as I wrote it on tumblr (which in turn was pasted in from a rant I put in a discord server) and I really hope it makes sense yeezus. Anyway, have at it.
Re, Radfem rethoric about 'male/female socialisation' it's also kinda sad I think because 'masculin vs feminin socialisation' is a really good way do describe some things? Like (And radfems, ironically, are HUGE on that one??) how me being afab resulted in having stuff like 'don't go home alone in the dark (because you are a womynnnn)' drilled into me and now I'm STILL nervouse alone on the streets even when I pass as a man and I know my cis-men friends just. can't even comprehend that?
(socialisation anon) and like I LIKE the angle of 'this is socialisation, not inherent' because I DIDN'T get to have a childhood as a boy but I still AM one (sometimes. I think. things are confusing) and thus it refames these (occassionally dysphoria-inducing) anxieties as something that was DONE TO, assigned to me. Like. Society decided I HAVE to be a girl (tho I am not) and then that thus I HAVE to be anxious about [Rape Culture Shit].
(socialisation anon) and like I LIKE the angle of 'this is socialisation, not inherent' because I DIDN'T get to have a childhood as a boy but I still AM one (sometimes. I think. things are confusing) and thus it refames these (occassionally dysphoria-inducing) anxieties as something that was DONE TO, assigned to me. Like. Society decided I HAVE to be a girl (tho I am not) and then that thus I HAVE to be anxious about [Rape Culture Shit].
“socialization” theory as it stands is a hot mess. esp because of terfs, who use it to claim things like “trans women have male socialization”........which they definitely don’t lmao........socialization theory is good but radfems fucked it up
i think there needs to be space to talk about the ways in which both trans men and trans women report being affected by rape culture and that lens cannot be gender socialization...because when we talk about gender socialization as something that takes place in this sort of vacuum where everyone is socialized as the gender they really are...........that does not reflect reality and it does not reflect the mental state of the people the socialization is supposedly being acted on. like i don’t mean to say that people are socialized as their agabs - that’s not true either. there’s a middle ground between 'trans women experience the same socialization as cis women' and 'trans women experience the same socialization as cis men'. neither of those are true, because trans women aren’t cis and they aren’t men.
socialization theory can account for the ways in which people perceived as women (trans men) and people who are women (trans women) both live under the threat of rape, structure their lives around that threat, that isn't gender socialization
because the entire point of radfem gender socialization (man am i tired of typing these long words out) is that males don't experience rape culture...........which is predicated on the assumption that men can't be raped. if you can't be raped how can you experience rape culture?
so the core of their argument against trans women is:
1. all women live under the threat of rape
2. this is female socialization
3. males rape
4. males cannot BE raped
5. males experience rapist socialization (because only females can be raped and they are never the rapists.........so the people doing the raping have rapist socialization.
6. trans women are male
7. trans women do not live under the threat of rape (blatantly untrue and easily disproven by the stats btw)
8. trans women are male rapists
but the material reality is that trans women are raped more than anyone else in the queer community and trans men also live a lot of their lives wondering if they’re gonna be raped, as you just noted, even after they pass.
so how do you reconcile these experiences - clearly the result of socialization of SOME kind, without resorting to gender as the axis of violence?
my proposed answer is *drumroll* rape culture socialization
important note: when I say ‘rapeable’ I do not mean ‘deserves to be raped’. I do not mean ‘is always raped’. when I say ‘rapeable’ what I mean is, ‘able to experience rape [as a form of violence]’. rape is a form of violence like any other, and in some sense we’re all rapeable just as we’re all killable: we possess a physical body, that somebody can come along and hurt. it’s not a statement about whether our bodies deserve to be harmed or violated in such a way, and I beg you to not take it as such.
here’s how that goes. everyone experiences rape culture socialization. e v e r y o n e. but some groups in particular have messages directed at them that tell them they could well be victims of rape if they don’t fulfill certain prerequisites that will supposedly prevent them from being raped. the primary target of these messages from the POV of society are afab people. afab people, which for society is synonymous with ‘women’ are socially conditioned to think of themselves as people against whom rape can be committed (im sorry for the convoluted sentence phrasing). so trans men absorb this message that they’re people against whom this form of violatory violence can and will be used, especially in a “corrective” manner.
by contrast, cis men by and large don’t see themselves as rapeable. that is not to say that cis men don’t get raped - just that they don’t constantly worry about being raped because society doesn’t push male bodies as rapeable. however, society does treat trans women as “failed men” or as predators themselves, or as “traps”, all of which are ways of saying “acceptable target.” so trans women, in addition to absorbing messages directed at women (because they’re women, duh) about how women are rapeable, also absorb messages about trans women as uniquely rapeable.
so they’re socialized in a rape culture too.
so I believe what you’re experiencing, anon, is not female socialization but rape culture socialization, which is something that affects each and every one of us.
thoughts welcome, and please let me know if someone's already thought of this even though I swear I came by this honestly I really am behind on all the reading I should be doing......lmao. Anyway. I'm not posting that answer until I can be reasonably sure that I won't be misinterpreted TOO badly, and a part of that is clearing up my phrasing and sentences. My answer has been pasted verbatim as I wrote it on tumblr (which in turn was pasted in from a rant I put in a discord server) and I really hope it makes sense yeezus. Anyway, have at it.
no subject
Date: 2019-03-01 05:20 pm (UTC)your thoughts about the word rapeable are valuable, and I'll work on that change.
that's...an interesting and depressing statistic, and it's the kind of thing I'd love to spread, if you can give me a source link? I have always wondered at the rates at which transmasc people are assaulted; I'd love to read more about it. thanks!
no subject
Date: 2019-03-01 07:00 pm (UTC)I saw a facebook post that explained this study [https://www.transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/USTS-Full-Report-FINAL.PDF] and the findings about sexual assault start on page 205. I saw that post months ago so my previous description was wrong (sorry about that!).
"Experiences also varied across gender, with transgender men (51%) and non-binary people with female on their original birth certificate (58%) being more likely to have been sexually assaulted, in contrast to transgender women (37%) and nonbinary people with male on their original birth
certificate (41%) (Figure 15.16)." pg. 205